Is Beta 1.4 solid enough for an open beta?

jwvanderbeck's Avatar

jwvanderbeck

02 Dec, 2009 07:35 PM

The focus of Beta 1 was a robust mod install and uninstall and it seems to me that we're either there or pretty darned close. With B1.4 it appears that all remaining bugs that could cause issues for installing or uninstalling have been fixed.

I would to move into an open public beta as soon as possible. How solid would you all say B1.4 is? Is it solid enough to move to an open beta in B1.5?

  1. 1 Posted by Alex "Alex... on 02 Dec, 2009 07:42 PM

    Alex "Alexspeed" Bachner's Avatar

    I would not move to a open beta till the mods that use just the "override"-Folder can be installed/uninstalled correctly. (with sugar on top)

    Pepole do not differ between mods, they assume all mods work the same way, in a open beta we would get alot of bug reports related to the override folder mods, i am 100% sure on that.

    on the topic of stable or not, i want to make atleast some more tests today, give me 2-3 hours, i have atleast 10 mods here to test still, if there is no other issue showing up with these then i consider beta 1.4 stable with install/uninstall of .dazip files =)

  2. 2 Posted by Alex "Alex... on 02 Dec, 2009 07:54 PM

    Alex "Alexspeed" Bachner's Avatar

    consider also the elimination of the the need to Manually Package a Mod for use with DAModder before installing it, for an public beta.
    i guess 60% of the possible testers could be overchallenged with that...
    ... but then... i have a rather pessimistic look on humanity, so maybe i am just overcautious :P

  3. 3 Posted by adaram on 02 Dec, 2009 08:02 PM

    adaram's Avatar

    I agree with Alex's points on this.

    Manual packaging -- most people that want to use this tool will never use it again as you actually have to think. People won't want to do that.

    I also agree with other "mod types" (ie. the override folder) being necessary. Personally, I was caught on both of these issues even though you documented the facts very well -- I just didn't read as well as I should!

  4. Support Staff 4 Posted by jwvanderbeck on 02 Dec, 2009 08:08 PM

    jwvanderbeck's Avatar

    Heh you guys are basically saying the application needs to be complete before it can be tested which defeats the point of testing :)

  5. 5 Posted by adaram on 02 Dec, 2009 08:11 PM

    adaram's Avatar

    Hmmm...

    I hear what you are saying. From my end, the goal is to make this the defacto "tool" for anyone that wants to use mods. People only get a first impression once. I am concerned that if that impression is "complicated and limited functionality", they just won't bother coming back.

    I know it's Beta, but unfortunately, gamers have come to see Beta as meaning "I get to see and use this perfect thing before anyone else".

    Maybe you could call it a "technical beta" or some way that will keep the scaredy cats away, but let in the people who are willing to read a little and do a bit more work?

  6. 6 Posted by Alex "Alex... on 02 Dec, 2009 08:19 PM

    Alex "Alexspeed" Bachner's Avatar

    Well, its your tool John, in the end its your decision.

    but what is about this beta actually not public or open?
    Its advertised at damods and the nexus and at your blog of course.
    That seems quite public and open for anyone to join anyway =)
    i dont want to nitpick on anything, just saying. ;)

    i guess you want to release it for download on the modsites then?

    If you do that you will attract the crowd, and the more pepole are in an specific thing involved the lesser will be the quality of the outcome. sure you will have maybe 10 times more bugreports, but how many of them are meaningfull for improving the tool in the end?

    i would stick with it till the above things i mentioned are fulfilled, that way you get the best quality, and if there are still not enough testers here, advertise again, on your blog and the forums, you know i do everything i can to support you =)

    Besides that i agree with adaram, you only get a first impression once, and that should be a mighty positive one. =)

  7. Support Staff 7 Posted by jwvanderbeck on 02 Dec, 2009 08:26 PM

    jwvanderbeck's Avatar

    No I don't want to release it for download anywhere but on my own site.

    Really the only difference would be that instead of having to email me and get an invite, I would simply make the URLs to here public.

    What i'm going to do is shift my priorities a bit.
    Push back Mod Configuration to Late Beta 2 or Beta 3
    And start working on Non-standard mods, and builder packaging

  8. 8 Posted by Alex "Alex... on 02 Dec, 2009 08:33 PM

    Alex "Alexspeed" Bachner's Avatar

    that sounds reasonable, i can agree with that, i thought you wanted to post it on the modsites for download labeled beta, you should please explain everything detailed on the post on your blog and label it "technical beta only for the brave"

    okay the last one was a joke ;)

    what about the FogBugz site, is it still relevant to my interrests, or can i delete it when we are now here?

  9. 9 Posted by adaram on 02 Dec, 2009 08:39 PM

    adaram's Avatar

    That sounds like a good plan, JW.

    Wow -- I can't believe how much work you have put into all this!

  10. 10 Posted by Alex "Alex... on 02 Dec, 2009 08:50 PM

    Alex "Alexspeed" Bachner's Avatar

    BTW, i tested now 12 different mods with DAModder beta 1.4 for install and uninstall without an issue showing up, for me its solid at this point.

    and jeah i am impressed too =)

  11. Support Staff 11 Posted by jwvanderbeck on 02 Dec, 2009 09:01 PM

    jwvanderbeck's Avatar

    From your perspective you can completely ignore FogBugz from now on. If DAModder detects an error that it wants to report, it will still report it to FogBugz, so you may still get emails from there, but I will copy all those reports into the new system.

    Just make sure you check up here when you can for announcements of new versions and what not. Generally I shoot for at least 1 build a day right now, possibly 2 depending on what is fixed (Like this morning pushing out the critical fixes early).

  12. 12 Posted by Alex "Alex... on 02 Dec, 2009 09:17 PM

    Alex "Alexspeed" Bachner's Avatar

    Okay thank you for the info =)

  13. 13 Posted by cansel isiksel on 02 Dec, 2009 11:34 PM

    cansel isiksel's Avatar

    I still gotta install a mod succesfully with damodder.

  14. 14 Posted by Alex "Alex... on 02 Dec, 2009 11:37 PM

    Alex "Alexspeed" Bachner's Avatar

    Where lies the problem? Why dosent it work for you?
    Have you followed this guidelines?: http://damodder.tenderapp.com/faqs/builders/how-to-manually-package...
    have you sent in Bug-Reports?

  15. 15 Posted by cansel isiksel on 02 Dec, 2009 11:48 PM

    cansel isiksel's Avatar

    If I try to install/uninstall with 1.4 I get this:

    Unhandled exception has occured in your application. If you click Continue,
    the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click
    Quit, the application will close immediately.

    Token StartAttribute in state Content would result in invalid XML document.

    -----------------------

    See the end of this message for details on invoking
    just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

    ************** Exception Text **************
    System.InvalidOperationException: Token StartAttribute in state Content
    would result in an invalid XML document.
       at System.Xml.XmlTextWriter.AutoComplete(Token token)
       at System.Xml.XmlTextWriter.WriteStartAttribute(String prefix, String
    localName, String ns)
       at System.Xml.XmlWriter.WriteAttributeString(String localName, String
    value)
       at DAModder.DAXMLParser.RemoveModFromXML(String sModUID)
       at DAModder.DAXMLParser.UninstallMod(String sModUID)
       at DAModder.Form1.button1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons
    button, Int32 clicks)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
       at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
       at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg,
    IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

    ************** Loaded Assemblies **************
    mscorlib
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework64/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
    ----------------------------------------
    DAModder
        Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
        CodeBase:
    file:///H:/Backup/Games/Full%20Games/Dragon%20Age%20-%20Origins/Fan%20Mods/Apps/DAModder/DAModder.exe
    ----------------------------------------
    System.Windows.Forms
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
    ----------------------------------------
    System
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
    ----------------------------------------
    System.Drawing
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
    ----------------------------------------
    System.Xml
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
    ----------------------------------------

    ************** JIT Debugging **************
    To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
    application or computer (machine.config) must have the
    jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
    The application must also be compiled with debugging
    enabled.

    For example:

    <configuration>
        <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
    </configuration>

    When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
    will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
    rather than be handled by this dialog box.

    --------------------

    Any ideas what might be goin on?

  16. Support Staff 16 Posted by jwvanderbeck on 02 Dec, 2009 11:50 PM

    jwvanderbeck's Avatar

    What mod are you trying to install?

  17. 17 Posted by cansel isiksel on 02 Dec, 2009 11:57 PM

    cansel isiksel's Avatar

    On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:50 AM, jwvanderbeck <
    [email blocked]<tender%[email blocked]>
    > wrote:

    > All of them cause the same thing. for ex this last one was autoloot mod
    > just for trying. with 1.4 uninstall doesnt work also, before that at least I
    > got it working. As for packaging here is what I do to give an example.
    >

    I make an AUTO LOOT folder. I put the dazip file inside this AUTO LOOT
    folder. I make a subfolder named damodder inside this AUTO LOOT folder and I
    extract the contents of the dazip file into the AUTO LOOT\damodder folder.

    With 1.2 I couldnt install at all. 1.3 made it look like the installation
    was smooth. It copies the contents into ADDINS folder. But the xml files
    were not modified at all.

    1.4 totally broke all the install/uninstall for me. it does this:

    Unhandled exception has occured in your application. If you click Continue,
    the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click
    Quit, the application will close immediately.

    Token StartAttribute in state Content would result in invalid XML document.

    -----------------------

    See the end of this message for details on invoking
    just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

    ************** Exception Text **************
    System.
    InvalidOperationException: Token StartAttribute in state Content would
    result in an invalid XML document.
       at System.Xml.XmlTextWriter.AutoComplete(Token token)
       at System.Xml.XmlTextWriter.WriteStartAttribute(String prefix, String
    localName, String ns)
       at System.Xml.XmlWriter.WriteAttributeString(String localName, String
    value)
       at DAModder.DAXMLParser.RemoveModFromXML(String sModUID)
       at DAModder.DAXMLParser.UninstallMod(String sModUID)
       at DAModder.Form1.button1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons
    button, Int32 clicks)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
       at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
       at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
       at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg,
    IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

    ************** Loaded Assemblies **************
    mscorlib
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework64/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll
    ----------------------------------------
    DAModder
        Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 1.0.0.0
        CodeBase:
    file:///H:/Backup/Games/Full%20Games/Dragon%20Age%20-%20Origins/Fan%20Mods/Apps/DAModder/DAModder.exe
    ----------------------------------------
    System.Windows.Forms
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
    ----------------------------------------
    System
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
    ----------------------------------------
    System.Drawing
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/2.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
    ----------------------------------------
    System.Xml
        Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0
        Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)
        CodeBase:
    file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/2.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
    ----------------------------------------

    ************** JIT Debugging **************
    To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
    application or computer (machine.config) must have the
    jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
    The application must also be compiled with debugging
    enabled.

    For example:

    <configuration>
        <system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
    </configuration>

    When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
    will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
    rather than be handled by this dialog box.

    --------------------

  18. Support Staff 18 Posted by jwvanderbeck on 03 Dec, 2009 12:05 AM

    jwvanderbeck's Avatar

    I've opened a ticket for this. I'll put some more error checking into B1.5 see whats going on. Very odd though. It shows you'r XML file getting into an invalid state which basically means that its no longer a valid XML file.

  19. 19 Posted by Alex &quot;Alex... on 03 Dec, 2009 12:10 AM

    Alex &quot;Alexspeed&quot; Bachner's Avatar

    I shall run a reference test with Auto Loot 1.12, ill update my results then

  20. 20 Posted by Alex &quot;Alex... on 03 Dec, 2009 12:32 AM

    Alex &quot;Alexspeed&quot; Bachner's Avatar

    results updated in ticket, had no problems

  21. jwvanderbeck closed this discussion on 03 Dec, 2009 07:32 PM.

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